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November 3rd
November 3rd

Episode · 1 year ago

ISRAEL SUPPORTER AND PRO-PALESTINE DISCUSSION

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we invite two guest speakers to give their two cents on the new conflict that has arisen between Israel and Palestine 

Do you see kids watching their fathers be like killed by a missile strike right in front of them? They're like mothers, like being like homeless, like starving to death. Like what would you do in that situation? Like would you not be pissed? Like you have no education, like the only thing you have left Ishm Mox. It's like the only thing you have left is like anger to the really state. And then what? And then, like your brothers and sisters are killed, like right in front of you, and like you can't do anything, so you shoot like a couple thousand missiles just to be intercepted by the iron dome and literally no hope for a future. Like what else do you expect them to do? Like they have nothing a their ladies and gentleman, my name is Rahala. Met here with my co host day on Khn, and you're listening to the third edition of the November third podcast. Hello. So today tensions between Israela flared up once more after a raid on mush the locks of the discuntral Palestinians through rocks, that is really police, as a form of protest against the forceful evictions of Palestinians from their homes in the Shaik Jaha Port Province on the West Bank, is really police shot, robbert bullets and tear gress grenades inside the mosque. Now, this attack especially resonated with the world Muslim population because of the time. It was an attack on the third holy site to Muslims, and the rate took place a few days before evil fit them, which celebrates the end of Rammana. So today we want to take a few minutes to discuss this conflict, history surrounding it and how to possibly address it. But since me and real seemed to agree on this topic and in hopes of canceling out any biases that we may have, we decided to invite two of my friends to give their opinions on the topic and to give us a new perspective on this conflict. With me, I have a Joe Farrell from Massachusetts and at least Mulligan from NYC. So how are the both are you doing today? Swell, I'm pretty good. Not Well. To start off, I just want you to to give us a little background about yourselves and if you have any friends or family in Israel or the surrounding area. Well, yeah, yes, outside. Um, yeah, I'm I'm a Jew. And I have quite a few friends in Israel. Actually, I think I have at least like dirty thirty or forty friends that are currently in Israel. And you know, I all my family has been to Israel on their birthright. I was actually going to go to Israel this last January but because of a topic will probably get into later, I wasn't able to go. And you know, like I've I've talked to a bunch of former IDF in, you know, the assault forces, the intelligence forces and specialize, and I've kind of gotten to know you like Israel through that, through that aspect. MM and Joe, I am a Catholic who's never been to Israel, nor do I know anyone directly who's been to Israel. Nice, Nice, and with you. Well, my last name is a mad and I'm Brown, so I think that should tell enough about my biases on the topic. Yeah, really is okay. Well, now that we know a little bit more about each other, why did you give us our initial thoughts about the conflict? Starting with Ellie's Danny, really throw me. Okay, I you know my my politics really, at the end of the day, are just don't be and I think in this case am I allowed. I'm allowed to say that right will is bloop it out. Okay, I think at the end of the end of the day, you know, both the Israelis and the Palestinians are not being the best neighbors to each other, and so you know I'm not in support of being a bad person. So any steps that can be taken towards making people happier and and more content with what's going on, I do willing to to take those steps. MMM and Joe, I a not a big fan of Israel. They mistreat the Palestinians. They treat the Palestinians horribly and they have for a while. And I don't really support a moss, but I understand where they're coming from and I just think it's lame to kill people. Cool, we're here. Wow, okay, very many level headed people here, so I'm just gonna throw out random opinion. I think I back a moss and has bill completely a thing. So we'll probably get that into that later.

But yeah, something. But okay, Elliot, okay, we you that will we can find. Okay. Well, personally I think that at the end of the day, is real deserves a nation. We've gone past the point where we be no longer where you can say that Israel does not have the right to exist. There's almost three generations of is really is living in Israel right now. The Palestinians have almost five or six generations of people that can identify as Palestinians. So I think both of them deserve their own nations and I think there should be peace right so well, I want to just read the room and does anyone know about the Shaik Jara Situation? That's something right now. Yes, I kind of had a quick question. I would I be put on some sort of Mosad watch list because I just said I support Hamas and high school completely? I think that may me and I have been in mistake. The one eye open will you and may or may not have made a huge mistake. Okay, Yep, I'm not going to walk back my previous statement, but let it be known I am not a part of a mass so please did not assassinate me in my sleep, please. I think we have to acres that much. No, not that, Yi, most sad. But in America, they they both said, has actually have had a history assassinating, like anyone anywhere. So if you look historically, I like you know, the Nazi defectors in Argentina. Argentina would not extradite Nazi sympathizers, so Mosad came up with a way to go into Argentina, get the Nazi sympathizers and bring them back to Israel and get them executed there. Yeah, really biggest U. Yeah, they have the ability to do anything anywhere in the world. There thorough. Well, let mean disc you part of the prison program right? I think. Yeah, so it's really yeah, this world. Um, I actually don't think it is, because the prison program I mean you can, I'm sorry, I'm sure you can search it up. That I after I found out about the prison program I look to see if discord was on it, and I don't I I was on that Vice, but I might be wrong. M All right, does everyone know about the Shikihara situation, the settlements? Is it the bulldozing the Palestinian that but in Shaikjaa, yeah, and the forceful eviction of twelve families, I believe it was. And Yeah, does everyone know about all Axa in this room? No? Yeah, it's one of the holy divisive pretty much. I'll access one of like the holy sides, not only from Muslims, but technically it's also the holy site could Jews, and I'm pretty sure questions as well, and pretty much anywhere in Jerusalem is, but this site more specifically. So, yeah, yeah, and the mosque that is neighboring that Temple Mount was rated by Israeli police and that's what sort of got us into this entire crafuffle. Currently, the death toll is much higher for people in Gaza and the West Bank than it is for his really's but will get some more detail about that later. Okay, so the truly understand their gravity of situation. I think we need to take a look at the historical context of this conflict and the religious context. Now, Elias, as a Jew, what do you know about the religious importance of Kanan, as it's called? Yeah, it's it's the home of of, you know, all all the Abrahamic religions, or you know, at least at least in some aspect. So I think, you know, for a lot of people it's a return to home and it's very important because it's where the beginning is and it's like where the center should be, and we're it's like a homebase for for both you know, Muslims and and Jews, and also Christians and Cathos. Weird thing is, athlex were pushed out so for long ago that they don't even care anymore. Yeah, that is true. Catholics do not care, so we just have Rome. Yeah, actually, I'm pretty sure there's a very significant Armenian Christian oh yeah, the injuries. Yeah, no, no, absolutely, their fill. Well, well, yes, what is the importance of Jerusalem to Jewish population? Well, it's it's where we made our stand, you know. So we had we we fought off so many people in Jerusalem. You know, you have the whaling wall, which is the the only remaining piece of that of the temple. You know,...

...we've are our story, you know, our story of Hannaka is like our temple got destroyed, our only temple got destroyed. Let's make this oil last. Then it's the only oil we have. Like all Jewish stories really come from like or, you know, booth after we found Jerusalem, all our Jewish stories or, you know, everything that you read in the tour is like, Oh, crab or oh shoot, someone attacked as we lost everything, let's rebuild this again. So, like this is this is something that we've you know, always add and we've always invested in and we want to keep on investing our life and our faith into Jerusalem because it's just such a big it's such a big part of who we are. You know, it's like it's something that I don't think you can ever ask any you to give up. So and Joe, as a patholic yourself, do you know of the religious importance of Jerusalem to Catholics and Christians? I mean that's kind of where Jesus did all and also flip when people are selling stuff in the temple. That's temple on the mount. That's that the rye broke out last year, weeks ago. Yeah, Truslm isn't a huge thing other than, you know, Easter and whatnot in the Christian in the New Testament. You know, it's just kind of word. Jesus hangs out some of the time, let's good. Yeah, and the tour covers everything that happens in the old test to him. So there's not a lot to add really. HMM. Now, as a Muslim myself, the region obviously houses the Mushril Loosa and the holy shrine, also known as temple mounted. The Christians, in the Jews it's really sacred to us for the many the same reason that as it is too sacred, as it is sacred to the other religions of the book, being the Christians and the Jews and the SCYDES, or believe they're called, were heal. You have anything that? Yeah, and also in many traditional readings of the Quran, it's technically the place where Muhammad ascended to heaven. All right, well, now I want to talk a little bit about the geopolitical aspect of this conflict. Well, let me just give a quick little run out of the history. So throughout the years the region has obviously switched hand many times and for Simplicity Sake, I'm going to start the pseudo timeline at the Persian empire. The Persians took the region from the Babylonians. Then Alexander the great took the empire from the Persians. The Potala Make and dynasty then took the region from the Macedonians. The Romans took the region from the Potala Make Dynasty. Then the Jews in the state revolted and established Syria Palestina. Then the Romans took it again following the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, took the reins of the region. Afterwards the Pursians got conquered it once again, and then the byzantines reconquered the region once more. The Sassin is Aka, the Iranians, took the region, but it was quickly retaken by the Byzantines. Then the Muslim empire took the region and four hundred years later, in ten seventy three, the Turks took control of the region. Then the Crusades happened, and then the mom look empire are secured the region for two hundred years. In one thousand five hundred and seventeen, the Ottoman Turks sees the region and held it until it collapsed. After World War One, the British took control of the region and now, after World War Two, they let it go and the UN decided the fate of the region. Now, as you can see, the history is quite complicated. And then we had the one thousand nine hundred and forty eight war, the six days worthy into fight, has the two thousand fourteen classes and a number of other wars, uprisings and conflicts that I'm leaving out of the intifats. You know, I blame the treaty of Versailles for everything. Yeah, I've been the Brits for everything then, like, well, they are everything right in the British think. I think at the end of the day, for he'll as probably the most to play in all of this historical dry yes, yes, re heal was there. We're he'll wash. was destroying the temples. Yeah, man humor. Therefore finish it with Jesus, for heal was also the one that thro the tear gas into the mosque. Yeah, we're go playing both that. We're apparently all ten real sacked the city with like whatever crusade. Yeah, was it the third that actually got to do? Is the third? Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Okay, children said I was pretty interesting. Yeah, the chosen because they which children, just like storm Jewice and all time those, I guess the first crusade. They actually anyways, they did not. They did, according to Wikipedia.

Well, siege, who was besieged by the yeah, but they all died. Yeah, everyone else died, people in the Crusades, of Christians and all the people in between. All right. Well, to get back on topic. No, so backtracking little bit. In one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven after the Six Day War. Is Real nearly doubled in size as they occupied much of the Sinai Peninsula and the West Bank. The Israelis were caught in a legal gray area. Technically, is reel on the Lens, but the UN did not agree with that sentence. While all of this was going on, Zion is settlers all this as an opportunity to simply move into the land they felt they deserved. Before you do that, go back to forty eight. Yeah, go back to forty eight. Well, this was called the KNUCKBA right in Arabic. That means the tragedy. So Palestinians and also this is that time period. This is that time period. I'm sorry, I I thought you were talking about the acquisition the Israel, the acquisition of Palestine in line. I was talking about one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven after the s were okay, yeah, they when they got these snai peninsula and the West Bank. I can't believe they had the whole Sinai peninsula for like six years. Yeah, it's pretty fun taken since, as you desert, there's nothing there, but it's impressed. Yeah, like even Egypt right now as a different time. That's from the Signai peninsula because, like the Muslim Brotherhood and like all the terrorists organizations have like a great time hiding there. So that's made. They'll read the last one of the main reasons why they blew up the tunnels toward the guys with Strip because they were afraid that a moss would spread to Egypt and they that's why they decide to buffalo kind of stuff forget. I said, yeah, all right. Well, yeah, know, that's that's still absolutely a fear. You know, like they're still they still have forces on the other side of the of the Strip that like go in and find tunnels and and destroying and I know because I have, you, like, I've talked to people who have been in those tunnels. MMM, how do you talk to these people? Is it through JROTC or whatever? No, no, I I well, I have a very, very strong Jewish community and we have, you know, we have people come in, come from Israel, and you know, they'll talk about, you know, how long they served, what they did, right, because everyone know what that was like. Everyone in Israel's been in the army. Yeah, no, it's you know, it's completely mandated. So everyone has a story, tries and they're all a little bit different, which is very cool. MMM. So, yeah, Um, you know, these Zion is moved in into these communities. These results in in clashes between Palestine civilians and settlers and eventually the idea of got involved, which, you resulted in hobbles of Palestinian death Balla Wela. So Elias, what's your thought on settlers and settlements in general, on Palestinian settlements or desionus settlements? I have no I've no problem with sinus settlements. I think the presence of a Jewish state is super important to the Jewish race, you know. But should that be at the cost of Palestinian like homes? Because you see the Sheik Jara evictions, there was a they're kicking these people out of their homes. Now be no, I as a settlement. I see. That's that's where the gray area in my in my my logic it because I understood, how have I understand how that happened and I understand that there was at there was a Palestinian majority and, you know, and the Jews were we're actually like realistically in the same or similar position as as the one they were in they're the one that the Palestinians are now. But Um, you know, I it other than like having a root for my own team. I think. I think the the fact that a Jewish settlement exists, you know, is is super important, no matter the size. I'm not a fan of how it came to be, but I think if, if it wasn't that way, it wouldn't have happened at all. I mean, actually, I wanted to mention something here. There were many other propositions for Jewish home ands at a similar time like this. So there was one and who got the Uganda...

...that they proposed, and there's also one in Siberia. It just happened that the British wanted to make the one it gaining or Palestine for it. So that's the way the end of today. I mean, if you, if you tell a kid that they can get a candy bar from either the store right next to them or the store three hundred miles away, they're probably going to choose this store right next to it's just it. Yeah, amazzing the sender right nigure the cost of other people. I'm not. What I'm trying to say is I'm not for that, but I'm saying if that hadn't happened, there wouldn't be a holy Jewish settlement, mm, which is like that's that's undeniable. You can't say that like, Oh, you know, it's still would have existed. Realisten man, yeah, re imperialism, and you know, like the other thing is realistically, like this is, you know, this is the Middle East. There's a hell of a lot of war and obviously this land has changed hands so many times. So it was something that's going to happen. It was going to happen and it's going to happen again. And now what about these my settlement? I think I meant these communities that are being established in the West Bank? What are your opinion on those, the ones that are currently being established? Yeah, I'm absolutely against them. I think we're on the same page. Yeah, yeah, no, I like, I like. It's one thing. First of all, like after the Six Day War, or actually during, you had the driving out of many Palestinians, despite Jewish majority, I mean sorry, Palestinian majority, and you know, they went to all the other kind of the neighboring countries which, you know, were inevitably defeated by Israel. But I think, Um, well, that that's important to note, because that's it. That's a major wotting it. How you like stead, you know, you're so casual. No, I you know, it's root for the home team, but Um, what team in life? I don't know too. WHO WERE LEAVING PARTY? Joe? Yeah, I am. I'm not against. I think it's beating a dead horse right, and I think they're these. The problem is, you know, the Middle Ease is ravished by poverty and so so. Even even in Israel, despite, you know, it's military advancements, and possibly because of its military advancements, you have these really, really poor communities. And I know because I've, like, I've talked to people from these communities and they're completely for for taking over this land, because you demolish Palestinian homes and then you build these, you know, these Jewish gated communities, and it's it's cheap and you know, these these people, you know, it's what they look forward to. You know, it's like what they've worked for, what they live for, is just to live in this subtized community that was illegally acquired land. And you know, I'm not. I'm not for the illegal acquisition of anything, especially when it involves taking someone else's land, because I think, you know, that's a major part of history, but it doesn't mean it's a good part of history. It's a very for opinion, Joe, do you want to give us your third party opinion? Third Party opinion on zins settlements? I think it's dumb. I think it's imperialism, which I'm not a huge fan of, because it just forced US onflict and, you know, exaggerated nationalism. You see that in Ireland still today. See that in Israel clearly. I mean when people are for settler homes and people are raise their homes and put up a nice gated community, it sucks for the people who got kicked out because they don't have anywhere to go or, if they do have somewhere to go, its place to go. Yep. Well, not a switch focus away from moment. Oh all right, okay, so the existence of the settlements, like and further so settlements being created, is pretty much really important in existence of this really straight state because, like, Israel needs to create some sort of much in this ethno state to stay alive like that. Their main goal is...

...is to push out the Palestinians because they need it to live. So, like I'm to come from because of a like at any yeah, like with like a flick of a match, it's like, girl, it's entire thing could come crashing down, like it's bad, like people say like like a fifth. It's is really population are. It is really Arabs. But like even within Israel, like it's difficult to gage who's loyal and WHO's not. So it's better for Israel push outs left settlers, to gay more land and to press Palestinians war to secure themselves. Like it's just something that they have to do. It's out of necessity, it's not out of pure evil or whatever, but it's just something that has to be done for them. That well, I mean I yeah, it's nationalism, I think. I think there's a tad bit of evil in it. I think there's a little bit of malice. There's a little bit of malice, there's a little bit of, you know, vengeance. I do actually think that it's not it's not necessary. I mean any any imperial government or any you know, overly nationalistic government, like you know ours here, requires the acquisition of new land, because that's just it's just like a an organism feeding itself and kind of growing. So I don't I don't think it's entirely I think it is in part out of necessity, but I also think, you know, it's just Israeli's being it or not, sorry, not being good. People look at Israel's occupation of the goal on heights right now. Do they need to know? But it's a very critical situation, very quickle position in the geography of the area, because it's so flat. It'd be easy for any opposing country to invade from there. See Syria or has below from Lebanon. So they're occupying the area right now just for their own g political game. And what I'm trying to drive at is, like, does is real or the US actually care about terrorism or like Islamic fundamentalism? No, they don't. If, like they actually did, they like they would it, they would have cared like far earlier. But the only thing that really matters, ever, is just self gain and like just gear politics. And Yeah, to touch on your point about like do these nations really care about like terrorism? Look, war is profitable. That's the bottom line and that's why I think there is a hidden agenda to drag out this conflict as much as they can. Um, no, absolutely, that's underniable. But then erous. Yeah, I don't want to cut off for hill, but I mean I don't want to cut you off time. But like to talk about, for heal, of the occupation of goal on heights. I think you know that's that's a safety measure, you know, Israel having been the thirst of what? At the at the cost of the people who live there. But, like you know, you're being put in a situation where you have a country in freaking turmoil. You know, it's the birthplace of one of the look, we can easily subtilize those farmers that are forming in that lene, but no, they choose to outright take it. Also, would you say about how moss or has Bella? Would you not say how moss is protecting the Palestinian state, like a lot of people say? If absolutely not, okay, okay, let me finish my like photogs are a lot of people say if if Israel laid down their arms, Israel would not exist. If Palestinians laid down their arms, the Palestinian there would be peace. Right. So that's like one of like the big things statements that a lot of people make what I believe is Palestinians did lay down their arm. Look at what happened to the West Bank. But the West Bank laid down their arms after the second and deified it right like the plow, like they have like some water down form of a security service that works with IDF. Now now what ended up happening? The West Bank is about to be annexed by Israel, like they have. They're losing every sense of gearanty that they had before. If they had not laid down their arms and if they kept fighting, regardless of however democratic they seemed, they would still have their own date. Whether it'd be absolutely bumped to hell, who knows. But like point is, like a moss doesn't exist like out of like nothing, like. There's a reason why a moss is around, and Israel existing is one of the main contributing factors to there being a moss. So that's just what I wanted to work yeah, I...

...mean a moss is an anti Israel terrist organization and absolutely, You know, a moss would not exist without Israel. Um, I don't agree with you. Know that. That quote that you used, I mean I know, I know it was in you saying, I know you recording it, but the if place and laid done their arms. But I do think that, you know, given the the the atrocities of last week and the amount of rockets fired, I think that, you know, Israel's in a much more per carriers position if they were too or would be in a much more per carriage position if they were to, you know, decide to take it easy and approach which Middle Eastern conflict with the conflict with a las, a fair attitude. I also do agree with you that, like you can't have Palestinians deciding that they'll they're going to let Israel take the wheel, because I do agree that you do have, you know, the creation of new Jewish settlements that's completely encroaching on their land. But, you know, the other the the other thing to note is like this, this is a war and it's hard. It's hard to be, you know, thinking on both sides and it's it's a lot easier to think one side. So I'm just trying to advocate both both sides. So if anyone disagrees with me on anything, you know I'm I'm open minded. So well, I would just like to add to you know, Hamas existing because of Israel is that histories written by the victors and if Hamas were too miraculously overthrow the government of Israel, they would they wouldn't be seen as terroristod be seen is freedom fighters, and they're still probably seen free of fighters by the Palestinian people. They're absolutely the Palestinian people have elected the Moss but like the mocked into office, not alone. I don't know. I like it that, yeah, but they have look, you know, they have literally of they have literally elected them, which Techniq by definition makes Palestine and terror state. But I won't get what it's like electing like Ostrea, electing to be taken by the Nazis and one thousand nine hundred and thirty eight. No, it's electing with like a like actual day credit election. It it's it's I you know, I can't. I can't speak to the fairness of Palestinian elections. So does that make the higher election? Is that reflect the actual Pinis of the thousand people? It doesn't, I think. Well, without the information, I can't tell you if it does or doesn't. But I think, you know, I you have so many Palestinians agreeing with what her losses do, okay, but, like what else would you have them do? Like what other approach can the Palestinian people take? Like what I look at? What happened to thoughts how and like the plow in the West Bank, like their governance is pretty much just dominated by e could or like the idea, like they have no self autonomy. Like they may say, Oh, we're going to prosecute Israel for them doing this or them doing that, but they have no power to do any of that. Like it, like Israel's government is taking steps to Ann as the West make and they literally can't do anything about it. So, like, what are they supposed to do? Like what other options are they are they supposed to go to the UN? The UN already declared like half the things, as real does. It's illegal, but that doesn't change anything. Like the US will the UN. The UN's just you want to see you one lumpy's yeah, the UNC UN. Like, yeah, I used to bully the kids who did model you, I guess. Like the thing is, as long as the US supports Israel, there's never gonna be any meaningful ground taken till I know, and we'll do we'll get to that real all right, but yeah, well, the US is a freaking super power and it's like one of the two grades military bree three. Yeah, at least we will get to that. So close this off. My opinion is I don't agree with Hamas. I don't know. I agree with like their cause, but I don't agree with their methods. They could easily take a diplomatic approach. They're not. Okay, that's a bottom light. Wait, okay, but yeah, I mean Moss A. Moss is a terrorist organization. Okay, so like guys. All right, I want to say a couple things about ham us before I do it, like, okay, we're going.

All right, we benefits from I want to put anything like a moss is nothing but like another chess piece in the chess board of politics for them. Right, like Israel does not want to annex. The guys are shit, like. They could have done that like twenty times over by now. The guys strips, I know they keeping it there. Negregation for the I think they could have taken far more significant steps again some MOUs by now. But then, Ya, who when, like anyone in power, and this really government, has a reason to keep a mos around? Like look like, look what happened, like it's not a new thing for Hamus, like watch a thousand rockets in and then Israel retaliates and then both sides declare victory, like this is just a way for this really government to show that they're actually doing something to their people, because will say that I most didn't exist and they started slowly, honest, annexing past didn't e lect and like then on, there would be far more internal strife and it would be far more worse. Enough, I could say I disagree with with the annexation of Palestinian land. I think that there wouldn't be any internal strife. The question is, once you reach the you know, once you reach the sea, then then you start to have problems with what am I going to do, like what was this country going to do? What are we doing here? Also, Israel has all the Arab states by the balls. Like let's look at Egypt, for example. Like one carefully placed missile into like a damn on the Nile River, you could screw up like thirty to fifty million people in Egypt easily. So that's why I like Egypt has recognized Israel for a while and has mediated peace tugs for like the past few decades. Now let's look at south of your Arabia. Both Israel and Saudi Arabia have a shared ally in America and a shared enemy in Iran. So while Saudi Arabia may not recognize Israel officially as a state like they've been working a lot behind the scenes. So there's that. I want to end this concussion right here. I want to switch gears to another topic. Sort of like to piggyback off of the what we just talked about. Right. So I want to focus on the two biggest parties in this conflict. First off, the Israeli government. Apparently, this government is headed by the former idea special forces operative, Benjamin it's on Yahoo, he has been reelected five times and has come under every scrutiny for allegations of bribery and other crimes. Arabs and Muslims within Israel are one of the most marginalized and oppressed groups in the world, according to various sources. According to one study, it was found that the money spent on the education of Jewish children was three times of much of the amount spent on Arab children. On the West Bank, there have been numerous instances of misuse of lethal force and brutality, and Gaza bombings are routinely carried out in dense neighborhoods, resulting in the deaths of Palestine civilians. Now the Israeli government claims that these casualties are a result of Hamas using civilians as human shields. So I want to hear what some of your thoughts on these strikes that are being carried out by Israel and then we'll get into some more nuances. Well, I will, okay. So I'm the Hamma on the subject of Hamas using civilians as a shield. Like the Godza Strip. It's half the size of Chicago with the same population. Like I don't see where how moss would have military basis separate from civil and installations. And it's not like a moss is telling hey his real we have missiles and this school or like whatever. Like it's is reals prerogative to complete air strikes wherever and they know where civilians are and where children are. Like sixty people do not die by accident. I just want to put that out there. No, I absolutely agree, and you know I'm not. I'm not a fan of bombing schools when you have other methods or you can wait. But I also want to point out that entering a school is is a moss's decision. You know it's not. It's not a question of like, Hey, should we like should we go somewhere else? Should we should we recoup in somewhere that's less densely populated, that won't affect our population, or should we run into a freaking school building while classes in session and hope that they don't execute, which, you know, it's evil on both sides. You know, you have. You have that mindset, and then you also have the one of the Israelis, who are like, yeah, let's let's send it in, let's let the punch it. But you know, yeah, like Russian is a new use is. Why aren't Israel using methods that minimize collateral? There are known methods, public methods, and that are meant to take out only one person. I mean,...

...for example, the R nine x missile. Right, yeah, it is you. It's quoted. Someone said that you can easily, you can target the passenger of the vehicle and not hurt the driver at all. And secondly, why aren't they injecting special forces teams to take care of these? Quote uncle installations. Let me tell you why. They prioritize is really lives more than the new Arab lifs, in my opinion. No, absolutely, yeah, no, no, it's it does it? It doesn't even have to be an opinion thing. It's that's latently true. Um, you know, for pevery Israeli that died. Ten Palestinians died. You know, I think more than that. Man, it was saying like nine Israeli's died and hundreds nos, twenty four in two hundred forty. Right now I think it's over Onezero and then it's seventy four these news and then over one down. It's all my God, it's three hundred or so. For the West Bank there's over a thousand, and Gaza, Seventy three hundred in West Bank. I did not. I did not something along with the ones. I'm pretty sure. Wow, okay, I thought it was Geez. Okay, it's Nexluce, because the missiles of that as a fires. You two is waiting. You know. I was talking about last week's conflict. Yeah, it's two thousand and fourteen, including all these. I think. I'm pretty sure about that. Yeah, I was just talking about so NBC says Sixty Five people were killed on the Israeli bombardment, which doesn't sound right. Okay, more than two hundred people have been wounded in Israel. Where there when more than three hundred Palestinians injured? Mum, I think deaths are a scwed, though. Yeah, no, I mean you can't. You can't expect anyone to correctly report their numbers. Yes, all the words. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's it's effectively. You know, you're asking China to report how many people actually died from covid or mom lear and concentration camps. Yeah, or how they feel about the Muslim population. All Right, I'm not doing well. From wikipedia. So on the Israeli side, there have been eleven sifidens killed, the one soldier wounded and about one dead from rides and stuff. On the Gaza Strip, there have been two hundred forty eight civilians and Wilton skilled. Than Nineteen hundred people wounded, a couple thousand people made homeless and well in the entire conflict or heal. Yeah, the two thousand and twenty one conflicts so far. Yeah, that's so. That sounds an last week. That's not true, because you had you had that that one drive we got killed from. A rocket hit him square in the chest. So, oh, it is really yeah, there have been, is, eleven civilians Israeli killed. Yes, yeah, but really, he was a he was a he was an IDF yeah, yeah, yeah, he said that as well. Really, one lder killed, three soldiers wounded. Okay, sorry, yeah, I mean I I read, I read twenty four, but I guess. I mean, yeah, I read twenty four, but yeah, anyways, terrible. Yeah, no, it's it's hard, you know. All Right, so my question is, how do you expect the kind these kinds of things to happen and not expect Palestinians to be radicalized? Like what other approaches do they have left, like what diplomatic methods like? And there's really nothing else for them to do. Like you see kids watching their fathers be like killed by a missile strike right in front of them. They're like mothers like being like homeless, like starving to death. Like what would you do in that situation? Like would you not be pissed? Like you have no education, like the only thing you have left Ishm Mox, like the only thing you have left is like anger to this really state? And then what and then, like your brothers and sisters are killed like right in front of you and like you can't do anything. So you shoot what a couple thousand missiles, just to be intercepted by the iron dome and literally no hope for a future. Like what else do you expect them to do? Like they have nothing. There's two million people living in a place the size of Delaware, and Delaware in the world states has a population of nine hundredzero. How do you think that effects this entire Gulphlet? So it's literally an open air prison, is what it's terrible. They came. No, it's it's water, rest your rations that are not enough to live on. Yeah, I don't know how the food situations there, but Israel dumps all their garbage into the ocean next to them. So it's not like they have an escaper at that way. It's that's that's entirely true. But U I know, I do. I do definitely think that it's completely problematic.

It's like the you know, like the US is report on the the war in Afghanistany's like you shoot one terrorist and two of his buddies joined. You have it's yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's just the you know, it's the trope of Middle Eastern warfare. You just going to have, you know, more and more people joining a cause. It's you cut off ahead and in two more grows. So it's like just a terrible situation. Yeah, now you're in a position where you just your band have bloodshed and in terms of like Islamic radicalization and that kind of stuff, like, if you look on the scale of history, this is like a relatively new thing. I'm not saying Islam has no, Oh no, no, I absolutely probably almost. Islam radical radicalization is completely new it. You know, Islam used to be like the center of Technology, mathematics and literature for for the world. You know, used know, it wasn't just that your having it was also from like there was also hacking around what like sixteen hundreds. Yeah, yeah, the then imperialism happened and they broke the region by splitting it up and uneven portions, like current situation is. M Yeah, and then the Soviet Union, the United States further destabilized it with the Muhadeen and the Soviet fghn or and all that stuff. That is true. Yes, Um, so, you know, the the end goal of Palestinians is to have, you know, to have their own separate state. And you know, for some that means taking control of the entirety of Israel, but for others that just means like getting back a fraction of their land. Or and and for, I guess, the youngest, who haven't lived through most his conflict, it's just to live in peace. And so they've asked for, or they've claimed East Jerusalem as there, as the metropolis of their future civilization. It's neither ask nor claimed. It is there's. It's supposed to be there's, it has been there's for like the past fifty five decades. It's like it's me, it's, it is really land. Now you, I mean you can't, you can't have, you can't have the Ottomans still saying that the land that was conquered and taken from them very mid not not the island, if you want to go by legal terms. The UN did agree that the Jerusalem should be split. Right at Jerusalem was split. Yeah, good, drews, yeah, no, no, no, Haslut the youth. The UN also is, you know, whatever, gradually see you. And Yeah, the UN not a close this discussion off and move on to the second party, Hamas. So Hamas is a group based in whom the Mass Oh my God, okay, yeah, howmus is a group based in Gaza that call for the outright destruction and genocide of Israel and its citizens. They carry rock in a text that deliberately target is really neighborhoods. During the first and second in the father's, they carried out suicide bombies and the allegedly, to this today, they operate a network of tunnels that house militants and munitions. In two thousand and seven, they seize power of Gaza and it remain the governing power to this day. So they didn't see his power. They were elected into pack. Yeah, and they were looking at but how already of Pastinians, including those in the West Bank. But thought that took power and they've been postponing elections ever since because they're afraid that he, Moss, might win elections in the West Bank as well. So, yeah, yeah, Um, that means he's power roles and you just taking it so well. No, I mean I think there's an important distinction because, like we've already dressed. I think you know, you have a situation where so much of the Palatine population. There's so many patasines agree with what Moss is doing. Right. So you have you have the popular vote of the people that you're representing. So I think, you know, if, given the fact that there are elections held, I wouldn't think it, you know, unlikely that a moss leaders in Ha Moss would be ethically and democratically elected into, you know, these offices. HMM. So I just want to since I don't really know much about Hamm us, I just wanted to know who exactly supplies and unitions and supplies to m us? The Terry Gouventure? Tell them. Yeah, the guitar government. But the the other thing is, technically the US, for this round of rockets, did supply the munition.

Didn't supply the munitions, supplied the money to buy the immunitions, the iron dome. That's United States and Palestine technology, or Israeli technology, should say, not Palestine. Yeah, no, but I'm talking about like the like the actual rockets. Yeah, that one. Know, the hundred fifty million dollars given for vaccinations. Yeah, to Palestine, but turn out to be used in other in other uses, in other methods. Yeah, and now no one's vaccinated Um. All right. Well, really have any questions? When asked about homost well, yeah, so I understand how a loss maybe problematic and that is definitely an understatement, but there's a reason why they are so popular, and I'm just going to reiterate that again, like if you leave people with no option, they're going to be left with desperation and choose the worst possible things. Like it's not normal for people to be willing to suicide bomb into buses, like it's not a normal thing. So you have to question the system that made such things a possible in the first place, not just the fact that these things are happening. Well, yeah, I mean I agree with that. I think you know with with you know the the first and second upheavals of a moss and the Palestinian government. You did have, you did have suicide bombings and you did have, you know, this radicalization. But I would like to remind you that the first one was simply because the prime minister is visited. What was the name of the camp? David Coors? Was it something else? I can't. I cannot remember the name of the mosque he visited. Oh Long, he's visited a mosque and people saw that is disrespectful. So I mean there was already, you know, obviously discontent, given that what had happened twenty years before, but that was the first, the first recorded or first major example of, you know, Palestinian discontent and rebellion. And also one thing I want to mention, like I don't think Amos would be nearly as popular if the situation in Gaza was better, because even under a mostral Gaza has been absolutely so. There has been yeah, like if Israel had just opened it up more for international aid and actually allowed people in to make a difference and change and not absolutely lock them away, then maybe we would see progress. But the fact of the matter is Israel is trying its best to occupy and prevent the Palestinians from getting any sense of sovereignty or any sort of power or any sort of leverage in any way, economical or militarily. So I don't think we're going to see a resolution to this problem. And, like I mentioned, it's in this really politicians best interest to keep a moss around, as they may be a small nuisance, I don't think a moss is an existential threat to the Israeli state who look like a moss is what, at most Fiftyzero, two hundred thou strong in terms of miligiance, like the Israeli military will definitely outnumber the Hams, and not only will they outnumber them, they'll have way better technology, so the casualty rates will just be off the charts. Like I don't think a moss could it in if itself could actually destroy Israel, and I don't think any of Israel's neighbored no longer have the inclination to discroll Israel either. So it's just horrible situation of politics that I don't think that's going to change any time soon. And to shift years, though, with the advent of social media and mass media, it's no easier than ever to circulate footage of bombings, engine direct and interactions without thef however, it all so serves of an echo chamber and results in the polarization of conflicts. The news media also pay a very big role in delivering coverage that people in other nations. I want to hear your thoughts on the role of social media and the news media in this conflict. You know instagram. I don't follow a lot of Muslims because I live in Massachusetts and there might be one or two in the whole state. Well, that's me. But that said, it's all been anti Israel for the most part, unless it's, you know,...

Jew like a couple of friends I have. You know, it's all just the same stuff and it's never really productive. It's never really something that makes you think. It's just like, Oh, this party is bad, this party is good. You know, with the Zionists on my instagram feed, they're like a mass is bad, the IDF is good, and then, Oh, I know that, thank you for telling you exactly what Moss is, but it's more like the Palestinians are about is really good is. They don't really want to make that distinction. You know, yeah, a lot of situations. Yeah, and then you know, on the other hand you've got IDF bad, Hamas good, which is just, you know, true. I can I can't support either of those idea is, but there's a surprising amount of people that do. Really, I don't think violence is the answer in this situation. The funny thing is, like pipple advocate for it. It most about social media is it's a lot easier to spread infographics and yeah, random post so it makes it a lot easier for people to be like stupidly antisemitics like no frigging reason, like as just dumb. It's like I don't think the average American has the capability to actually understand this conflict to a way that it would do it justice. So I'm not saying that people shouldn't care. I'm just saying that people shouldn't be posting on social media before fully understanding the whole contract, the whole thing, because a lot of people really have no idea what's actually going on and are just taking things from face value. And it's not really that easy to get educated on this topic because, like, where would you really learn from? Like every single like media source has its own biases, like you can't learn from like I'll just the era, or like TRT. But you can't really learn from American media either. So, like, what are people supposed to do? Honestly, some American media's pretty good, like the Times. They're liberal, but they're pretty solid on international stuff. Yeah, I know the Times is really really good, the AP as well, the Associated Press. Yeah, Um, yes, ris I don't know if anyone have seen this on their feeds or unlike stories on instagram there's like a video of mutilated, dead children being seriously being like circular or out. I want to ask this. I'm not accomplish anything, it does images are carrying a lot of information. Like there's a reason that the Holocaust memorial museum is ninety percent images, because reading something doesn't show you the horrors of it. You know, I don't know the context of the image other than there's dead, mutilated bodies, but that is an impact on people. I mean, yeah, yeah, at least one of them. Yeah, no, I think I think images are absolutely I think the Holocaust museum is a great example of that because, you know, like we were, were were animals. We have instincts and we care about, you know, the people who who are no longer with us, because we that's a luxury that we have and we're always going to, you know, at least in some way feel bad about, you know, someone not no longer having that opportunity or, you know, having their life taken from them. So I think, I think, you know, in that sense it's absolutely important. Um, and it's also just disgusting. It's like horrific to look at and it just makes you not want, you know, whatever is going on anymore to stop. Like you can look at, you know, Napalm charred bodies in Vietnam and think, you know, we shouldn't have gone to war and Vietnam it's going to look at, show me little shot Shima's. Yeah, you can look at the burns from here. Shima, Nagasaki, you can look up. I mean you can look at, you know, like a girl who lost her leg in Afghanistan because landmine went off and think, wow, that's that's horrific. But, you know, going back to the original question, which I'm now forgetting, I'm sorry, the role of social media needed the conflict is a yes, sorry, okay, yeah, Um, yeah, no, social media completely contributes to polarization because the fact...

...of the matter is there's so many things going on, there's so many epigraphics you can have and you know, like even if you just show a video one thing, there's a video of another thing that supports the other side, you know, and so if people are only shown one thing or they're taught to believe one thing by, you know, the people that idolized, like, for example, ladd Um posted something like all the Israel all all Jews living in Israel or something are like horrific or something like. First of all, that's Anti Semiticas, and you know it goes against my politics because she's being at but yeah, so you have you have like this kind of the sponsorship of these conflicts by, you know, celebrities, and you also have the flooding of social media with Dum freaking infographics that say, here's the amount of people that did this today, here's the amount of people that did that today, and like the fact of the matter is there isn't information on that, like there's not going to be precise information on that. And you know, you have you have people who just are aren't entirely honest, much like Israel and Palastine aren't honest with their casualties. Like Israel claimed that they killed two hundred and forty a mosque combatants during those bombings. Just how many of those were civilians? Question? Yeah, you know, a two year old girl could be a mosque comby, but you learned something new every day and we're right. Yeah, Bro, if she's in the school she's in with within six feet of a moss combatant, that just like promotes her. That's why social sincing is the thing, man, exactly, you'd stay six feet away. No, I mean I obviously I'm totally against the killing of children and any capacity, except for, you know, the the yes, please explain there. If you know the ones, the ones in Africa, when Africa was going through it's trouble times, we have cello rods kids. Yea. Yeah, no, because a kid with the gun is still a kid with the gun. Yeah, wait, are you emphasizing the kid or the gun part? I'm emphasizing the kid part, because that's no. No, I think the guns the important and deciding factor. But I think you know, child, the dude. No, I mean you have you have the shooting in the shooting of the the two black men by a seventeen year old. Are you going to say that that's that, that's a kid with the gun. Are you going to say that he he shouldn't be on my kids with guns? I think we mean like for and Tall Mules would it's a it's a four year difference. It's seventeen year old shooting some people is different than a six year old getting shot up because he might have known the wrong place to the wrong time. Yeah, I mean, are we talking about the kid that died in California. I was talking about Kyle Rittenhouse, who brought the air fifteen to the peel and protest shot to people. No, no, I know, will. Yeah, I mean you shot a guy who's holding moll time, but know that. I yeah, that's it. Hell, different story, another topic, UESS, another topic for your yeah, sorry, get enough Africa. Yeah, all right, so on. We're healing. Have anything to add to the Inter social media thing? Yeah, I feel like it's a lot easier to spread negative posts than positive ones, and that's why a lot of social media have like negative feedback groups. If you look on Tick Tock, if you like one negative post, it's just like the rest of it. It's just going to be anger, fear or said, DIS inducive, like better studies done, like human brains are more receptive to those emotions and positive ones. So it's easier to spread fear and hate then it is if you're like educated, then it is to spread education and like cool some stuff in general. So it's easier to radicalize and change people in mind. If you say, Hey, you should hate this group of people, or is this group of people did this, or you should be afraid of these people. So in social media just makes it easier to do all of that and I believe that this just worse as a whole for the conflict and for the spread of information. Yeah, but re heal you. I agree with you on the fact, on what you said about like hate. Social Media's play a big roll in and symptimizing hate, but I don't agree with you on the positive and native thing. What is positive about this conference? You know, I feel like the negatives are important. You know, I didn't see the positive about the punk clock. Then I never said that there were positives about the conflict. I'm just saying it's easier...

...to spread negative, connotated things than it is to spread just neutrali or positively connitted things. So just a post about information or a new story vote trend as much as a post with just like he's the US is back in Israel clyly, because I feel Leed just emboldens them further to just do whatever they want, because, like, Israel and Palestine will only make peace when they have no one else to turn to and they have no other options and they just have to live amongst themselves. But like, that's just not the situation right now. Because right now the US will back Israel will matter what. In like the UN, they blocked the ceasefire like three different times. So, like, what do you think is going to happen? Like we said, billions of dollars in like unrequitted aid or like no need to pay back like every single year. So I feel if the US played it more responsibly and stopped showing such a huge favoritism towards Israel, maybe would actually get somewhere in peace talks. HMM, and Ellis, you have any propositions in how to maybe solve it? Well, I think it's a difficult topic and you can't really, you know, solve it on I discord call eleven o'clock to night. That's not but yeah, I as much as I you know, I don't think anyone wants to give up land, especially the Israeli's. It gets to nail for it. Yeah, they've. They've, you know, there's been a lot of bloodshed over it, there's been a lot of technological and weapons development over it and they're a very proud people, and they should be, because they've done, you know, they've created a Jewish state in an entirely you know, Antiz to medic region. Point of ignorance. All right. Well, to close that off, that's about it. Not a move one to foreign nations. So it's a gay. Yeah, I just wanted to cut the short a little bit. We've been talking for a little bit. Yeah, all right. So last topic for nations. So it's clearly evident that foreign nations play a very big rule in this conflict. The US sends over three point four billion dollars each year in a to Israel, which is reel stands mostly on enhancing its military power and technology. A League of fifty four Islamic nations have convened this path past month to discuss how to address the conflict. I have condemned Israel Israel's handling of these conflicts. So what do we think about foreign involvements in the culture international condemnation and actually funding billions of dollars? Like two completely different, very different things. Yeah, okay, so let's be real here, like none of these Musliminations have the balls to actually do anything towards Israel. In fact, streaking are on. Yeah, definitely, definitely not. Yeah, and like people, like some countries, like Saudi rab are out like out right cooperating with Israel because of shared enemies that you mentioned, like Iran. So I don't I don't think like Palestine has much in the way of international support, like like a bunch of like activists in the US, is it much in ways of foreign support. Meanwhile, if you look at Israel, they have backing from like the most powerful country in the world. So I feel like it's the US is responsibility to actually do something towards a peaceful resolution, because we've done anything but that up until now. And it's not like the US has no capabilities to do such things. But if we have the ability to send billions of dollars in taxpair dollars over to like a state like on conditionally, I feel we have the ability to make the lasting peace in that every area so that we don't have to worry about it ever. I get but it's the thing is it's not in the US has best interest to do that. So I feel like it's never going to happen and we're going to be in a substruck in a cycle of this conflict and this just an unfortunate fact of matter. Yeah, I mean, instead of setting people for billion to fund bombs, why don't we divulge those funds into US aid, one of the biggest United States based humanitarian organizations. US, the government owned to help people write instead of kill people. Right, at least you, and if you that's a great idea. You can give money to government AIDS so can be withheld to advance...

...political method to advanced political policies of presidents. Um. Now, I think. I think at the end of the day, you can't. You can't have Muslim nations or Islamic nations judging and as a Jewish state, you know, it's just there's too much bias. So I you know. But what I want to involve is only people. Is Do they not have a right to see something? But it no, I've I think they are absolutely do. But much like I have a bias, you know, they also have a bias. So I think, you know, you can say all these horribles that you can say there's been atrocities, which you know, in some regard there's there's definitely been foul play. I don't think there's been anything on a on such a horrific and grand scale as some people playing. But I think, I think absolutely like this. This isn't going to be solved but just the pastinans and the Israelis without with both sides walking away. So I think, you know, outside influence is going to help this, but I also think, you know, condemnation does nothing and I think we heals right in that. Yeah, you can, you can say what you want, but like you know, it there was. They tried to do something about it and I think just about everyone lost land. So all right. So clarifying what I said about US aid, there's a humanitarian organization owned by the US government called US aid, and they do quite a lot actually with whatever spoils they get in Gaza. I mean they full the fundy foodstep program a voluntary footstep program that works as a subsidy with is, with excusing Gazza small business, and you know, it helps a little class. That's what I said. Yeah, sorry, I miss I'd miss heard you as in like USA. It isn't. Yeah, it was all good money. Sorry because I was I was just thinking about that, the trump Ukraine phone call. Yeah, all right, any closing thoughts on this entire situation? Well, yeah, okay. So, yeah, Illis, you go first and then no, no, I'll you can go first. Over here. It's your show. All right. So I was just going to end up saying there isn't much we on a random podcast and a discord call could do. At the end of the day, it's going to be solely up to the politicians that actually have the power to do such things and unfortunately I believe that at the end of the day they won't do much of anything, as has been happening for the past five decades. So the little little we can do as normal citizens, I believe we should, and that's disseminating information and actually telling people the way things are and hopefully one day things will change. But yeah, signing on the town one day. Yeah, Joe, you got anything? It sucks, man. Yeah, it's fair bad. All right. Well, thank you at least, and Joe for coming on. Thank you to the audience for listening and I hope everyone sees safe and healthy and I'll see all in the next one. Goodbye.

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